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hello all and welcome to our latest episode
of need to know i'm ross coulthart now last

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week's show about the potentially harmful
uap contact with humans really struck a nerve

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and we've got some follow-ups on that in a
moment but first let's swing our cameras across

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to my mate in dusty los angeles bryce sable
g'day bryce good deal roscoe thank you it's

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not that dusty here although we haven't had
rain for a while we're not happy to get any

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for a while so it's it's getting dustier by
the moment you know for this show folks what

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we're going to be doing is pivoting to an
area that may seem a little lighter if you

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will than last week's which probably wouldn't
be that hard but it actually does raise some

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highly important questions the issue that
we're going to take on is just simply rock

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stars who have either experienced the phenomenon
themselves or have shown a deep interest in

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the phenomenon and in our next segment we're
going to be talking about link 182's dom tom

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delong and in the last segment we'll focus
on john lennon and his famous ufo sighting

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and believers there really is something quite
interesting in both of those stories that

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has a pertinence to today's events that is
very important but first i just want to acknowledge

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an amazing story that our friend and colleague
tim mcmillan ran on the website the debrief

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this week tim's pretty good with his scoops
and he picked with this one this one up this

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week and it's a whopper it's a it's a vindication
of lou ellison though i i first met lou in

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person last year at his home in wyoming and
the poor fella had just been visited by the

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defense security people and he was still rattled
from that meeting he was being given a hard

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time frankly by investigators in defense and
frankly i don't think people realize how bloody

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hard it's been for the former head of the
uap ufo investigation program in the pentagon

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louis lozando he's suffered badly because
of frankly a guy at the helm of the defense

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department a guy called gary reed who was
the head of defense intelligence until that

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is earlier this month when he got fired i
mean for a house it's a great uh it's a great

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story from tim mcmillan and uh you know the
the gary reed part of it it's very interesting

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how the the story is written there are three
parts to why he got fired apparently one part

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is he was the guy uh who was at least the
fall guy for the afghanistan withdrawal here

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in the united states and how it didn't come
off the way anybody hoped it would come off

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uh the other was how he had uh campaigned
against luella zondo for quite some time from

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the beginning and that was interesting and
then the third part was a sexual harassment

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claim that had and claims or other that had
been made against him and it was interesting

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ross because i read the article i part of
me wanted to say you buried the lead because

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i really wanted to read about the elizondo
stuff and it started with uh quite a bit about

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the sexual harassment but but i don't know
maybe that's what you got to do to get somebody

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out but i couldn't be happier that he's gone
you know what always amazes me as an australian

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cultured in the british system of law we have
these horrible defamation laws in our country

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which means that even if we knew about a sexual
harassment claim made against a senior public

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servant there is absolutely no way we would
be able to report it the way this was reported

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by tim i don't think you americans realize
how lucky you are that you can report stuff

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like that and not get your pants suited off
but let's come to the the details because

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i think it's very important to talk about
this this is actually momentous it's it's

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very easy to be flippant about what's happened
here but elizondo has repeatedly claimed that

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he was being white-entered that he was being
undermined by people inside the defense intelligence

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organizations and he has been vindicated in
this finding from the inspector general who

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has essentially adjudicated that there there
have been times when misrepresentations have

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been made and the reason why this is significant
is because there are how does one put this

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journalists or purported journalists or commentators
who have chosen to slavishly run the pentagon

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line without question without testing those
allegations with their own sources and so

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i suspect that there have been certain people
in ufology who have been used by people inside

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the pentagon to essentially undermine the
credibility of elizondo and elizondo's victory

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this week with the sacking of gary reed is
a vindication not just for him but also for

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ufo uap transparency this is the guy reed
who's been allegedly according to the article

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and according to elizondo blocking a lot of
the push for transparency inside the defense

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department he's been directly influencing
and i suspect directing the statements that

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were made by the pentagon spokeswoman on this
susan goff so it's going to be very interesting

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to see whether susan goffs survives this purge
and whether or not other people inside the

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defence hierarchy are now feeling nervous
about the the potential consequences for their

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position on this issue it's it's actually
hugely significant this and it's coming at

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a time when we're on the cusp of finding out
whether or not the congress is going to do

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any kind of hearings into uaps could it very
well be that this is the precursor to that

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decision well it certainly seems like action
is happening i can only imagine by the way

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the kind of relief that lou elizondo must
be personally feeling at this time excuse

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me you know in our last episode we were talking
about lou and how he's been frustrated with

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some of the personal attacks that have been
made and how the fact that he actually did

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these things that he's claimed he's done and
people were still giving him a grief about

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it well that's been resolved largely by uh
this article on the action taken in a way

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i i i kind of feel it it you know when the
the the june 25th 2021 uh preliminary report

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on uap came out it kind of removed something
from the discourse that was helpful it removed

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the idea that the people in charge didn't
think any of this was real because it said

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yes we think uap is real it didn't actually
answer what they were but it said at least

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they were real that was good and now what's
sort of happening with lou is at least we're

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feeling like okay well he's pretty much what
he said he was enough people have vouched

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for him that we can start to pay closer and
closer attention to what he's saying and less

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attention to what ufo twitter is saying about
him and actually start to get to work on this

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issue of transparency and and honestly that's
the issue yeah that's the thing that has been

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really interesting though because whilst people
like yourself and i we we've accepted that

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lou was who he says he was what's been really
interesting is this disinformation that's

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been run from the pentagon and i suspect in
part from gary reed's office to suggest [\h__\h]

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things like oh louie lozando was never the
head of a ufo uap investigation program inside

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the pentagon there have been direct attacks
on his credibility questions raised about

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the assertions that he's made by senior people
in defence to try to undermine his reputation

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in the public eye and this is why the read
sacking is so significant because it's sending

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a chilling message to anybody else inside
the defense hierarchy who now tries to essentially

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lie and deceive the public you know everything
any any defense official now is going to be

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held for account i just hope you are 100 right
about that uh the question i still have about

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it though is we hear continually how the navy
is more forthcoming than the air force well

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they're both part of the department of defense
and if the dod is still intent on dragging

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its feet then they're certainly not going
to be kicking the air force to get to work

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that's why i thought the the the words the
two words you just spoke that really spoke

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to me were congressional hearings are we potentially
getting closer to that happening because uh

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if if we have even even uh well if there are
hearings that are classified just knowing

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they're happening is good but i think we need
uh the open hearing some public hearings so

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that people can really start to wrap their
heads around the fact that we're dealing with

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something authentic yeah frankly i don't think
anybody from the mainstream media is really

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going to engage with this subject until the
whistleblowers some of whom i'm speaking to

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and i know you've you know of some of them
as well i don't think there will be any movement

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from the mainstream press until people on
oath are saying things that make the mainstream

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media sit up and go wow this really is real
absolutely and and in addition to that what

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has lou elizondo the i guess the recently
cleared louis lozando had to say about this

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he keeps saying that heads are going to roll
i mean he said it in so many words he intimates

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it uh most times when he speaks uh that that
laws probably have been broken in terms of

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keeping this from the american public and
the world and that there's going to be consequences

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and he has made it now ahead now ahead has
rolling yeah i had there has been a head rolled

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and if i was a j if i was a if i was a general
who has lied to the president because as you

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and i have talked about in previous podcasts
i think presidents have been lied to i i think

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congress has been deliberately misled there's
quite a clear trail of evidence to show that

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even the admissions that have now been made
by the pentagon in that june 25th report last

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year the preliminary assessment they directly
contradict decisions that have been made by

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the u.s air force and senior members of that
organization for much of the last 30 or 40

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years so is it going to be the case that we're
now going to see other heads rolling inside

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the pentagon people who've now who've been
lying for so long are now going to be held

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to account i think we've got two things we're
watching at this point one is heads that are

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rolling but that's an internal uh department
of defense thing where uh you and i can't

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fire anybody there and frankly congress isn't
about to fire anybody in the department of

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defense it's got to be the dod that sets steps
forward and does that for their own particular

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reasons and the second thing we're watching
is there seems to be a growing group of people

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in congress not only in the house but also
in the senate who apparently feel that forget

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whether the president's been lied to they're
pretty sure they've been lied to they're not

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happy about it and they want to see changes
made and they they've obviously a few of them

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had some of these very high level classified
briefings and instead of tamping down their

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enthusiasm for transparency it seems to have
simply made them more insistent than ever

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before that it's time to get moving on that
so yeah i think things are starting to change

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in washington dc so moving on to the rest
of the week's news i think it would be um

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improper if we didn't acknowledge the passing
of the legendary john lear a very controversial

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figure who was probably best known as an associate
of the controversial and equally controversial

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character bob lazar in las vegas john lear
of what was he was a former air america pilot

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he was the son of the chap who developed lea
aviation the the some of the great developments

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in aviation in the 1940s and the 1950s but
um he he was instrumental wasn't he in pushing

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a large number of the uh conspiracy theories
about area 51 he was and i remember for many

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years how a number of people wrote him off
and said well there goes john right and of

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course the more that we hear that people have
uh admitted to reality of uap the more you

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have to say well i don't know let's revisit
what he did have to say i met john lear in

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the 90s when i was doing the nbc series dark
skies and i can't remember who connected us

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but i think we had dinner and i found him
fascinating and again at the time i didn't

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have a journalism hat on as much as i had
my entertainment hat on so it was fine for

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me to hear all the wild ideas that he might
have had because i thought well you know maybe

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i can use that stuff now whether i believed
it all at the time i i'm pretty sure i did

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not uh and i do think uh it's worth uh our
our time and effort to look into what he was

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saying because if there's nothing else you
could say about john lear it would be that

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he was persistent he continued to espouse
these ideas and he continued to say that there

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was something you know very large very strange
going on and that we weren't being told the

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truth about it now bryce the other thing that
you and i have shown an incredible ability

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to predict was the uh the controversial issue
of whether or not uaps cause harm to humans

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now our last episode uh happened to come at
a time just before the the re-release of the

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dude which was essentially one of the uh documents
that was prepared by the orsap internal pentagon

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ufo investigation program which investigated
claims of uaps having an adverse influence

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on human health and this document which had
already been released was re-released in longer

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part by an foi obtained by the sun newspaper
in the united states and it went bananas around

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the world and i one thing i i want to note
about that case is a lot of people are basically

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saying that um kit green and gary noland uh
who who've both made comments in the last

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few weeks about health effects from uaps that
they were being misquoted that that essentially

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there were misrepresentations being made about
what both men said frankly i don't agree i

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think the reality is that both kit green and
gary nolan made statements that appeared to

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be suggesting that uaps were responsible for
adverse health effects on humans even a direct

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reading of what they said in those recorded
interviews is very very clear that they were

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asserting that ufos had caused adverse health
effects and then about a week after they said

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it they both walked back from those comments
yeah i think it's unusual i've listened to

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many of the same interviews you have i they
are trying to walk back certain things but

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they did say certain things as well i think
the whole walking back syndrome uh is one

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that you have to take with a grain of salt
i remember when harry reid was interviewed

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about crash wreckage for the new york times
and and basically said that it was a real

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deal and then he tried to walk it back the
next day the the the skeptic in me said i'm

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going to go with what he said the first time
because when something you say gets printed

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or or gets traction the you the reason most
people walk something back is they don't like

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the traction it's getting and they want to
wait they want to put that away so i think

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but but but i think there's even a larger
question why do you think that suddenly the

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idea of harm and the idea that there's a negative
encounter with uap that we need to take into

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account has gained such traction because remember
in the in the um the new gillibrand amendment

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that has been passed into law and signed by
the president uh they talk about that so clearly

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uh it's not something that you and i just
made up or other people who like to talk about

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ufos and uap is making up the government itself
is saying we should look into it yeah look

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i don't know quite frankly i don't know why
kit green and professor gary nolan were walking

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back a little bit from what they said because
frankly the evidence is overwhelming that

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there is harm caused by uaps i talked about
my friend my australian friend damian knott

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very respected researcher here in australia
who were still trying by the way to to get

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some medical help we've had a few offers from
doctors in the united states who've said that

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if they uh if we can get damien across to
the united states he can get help there but

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no help yet from australia if anybody here
is an expert on radiation injuries in australia

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and they want to help a good bloke here in
australia please let us know you know we put

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some of those photos in of of damien and his
injuries that he sustained and they were too

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much for some people we did get some pushback
from people saying i don't want to look at

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that stuff that's very triggering for me and
i guess my attitude is um yeah well if it's

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triggering then maybe it's triggering be for
a good reason and secondly i don't think it's

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uh you know some people are saying why do
you even do this stuff and it's not like we're

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doing it all the time we're just saying that
if you're going to take a wide look at the

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uap issue then you're going to have to look
at at all of it and i think that is clearly

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one part of it and i think we're going to
have to live with that for a while it doesn't

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mean uh that that's all one should focus on
but i think to say that you shouldn't focus

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on a possible negative either motive or or
effect is just wrong you've got to talk about

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it now bryce before i flag what's coming up
in the second section of our need to know

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podcast this week i want you to explain a
little bit about yourself i mean a lot of

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people know you as the the the writer the
creator of the dark skies uh uh drama series

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which i i love it's fantastic series kind
of a precursor to x-files and i know you also

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as the author of after disclosure but a lot
of people don't know that you're a journal

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by background that you've worked as an investigative
journalist well god bless you son for bringing

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that up no it is kind of funny i i compared
someone the other day i said i think a lot

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of people think that i'm ed mcmahon to uh
ross coltar's johnny carson uh which i don't

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know if that comparison even flies in australia
but i would love to just tell people just

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a tad of of where i come from i i got a degree
in journalism at the university of oregon

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with an emphasis in broadcast news and i was
lucky enough straight out of college to go

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to work in the television news business worked
for a number of years in local markets first

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came to los angeles as cnn cnn's original
hard news correspondent which was just a fascinating

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time period i you know i i got to cover the
big stories i got to cover presidential campaigns

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and space shuttle land things and launches
and then i went to pbs for a while and and

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worked as an investigative reporter there
as as you are currently today and uh won my

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share of awards for that as well so i sort
of thought that was going to be my life and

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what ended up happening to me anyway is that
my wife god bless her jackie said i think

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i think the show i was working on at pbs the
investigative news show got canceled and so

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the question was well what am i going to do
am i going to become one of these have suitcase

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will travel anchormen and end up in buffalo
or wherever it would be and she said well

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have you ever seen a screenplay and i said
that i had not and so we got our hands on

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one and i read it and i said you know it doesn't
look like it has too many adjectives or adverbs

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in it maybe i could write a nice terse version
of a of screenplay and i did and i actually

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sold that it was called eng for electronic
news gathering which is of course about television

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news uh canada bought it they made 110 episodes
of it i think and and uh you know that's so

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i decided to stay in hollywood and keep doing
that however and the essence of what you're

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asking is i think if you're a trained journalist
you never stop being that being a journalist

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is what's made me a good screenwriter because
i've seen thousands and thousands of people

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and quite often and you'll i'm sure you can
attest to this when you see somebody it's

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even it's quite often the best day of their
life or the worst day of their life and so

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you really see the highs and lows of the human
condition which i think is not only good for

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a journalist but also good for a writer so
again thank you for bringing that up now one

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thing we know bryce is that in the area of
uaps ufos truth is often stranger than fiction

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so that's why i'm quite excited about what
we've coming up got coming up next do you

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want to flag what we've got coming up absolutely
you know folks coming up in our next segment

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we're going to focus as i said on rock stars
who claim to have had a ufo experience and

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and ross is going to be walking us through
that oh so strange case of blink 182's tom

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delong and i'll be talking about a case that
i spent a lot of time looking into last year

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and that's the ufo sighting by john lennon
back in 1974 outside his new york penthouse

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apartment

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[Music] ah [Music]

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uh [Music] so

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[Music]

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delong who's probably been one of the most
unfairly maligned people in the field of uap

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ufo research tom was until a few years ago
the lead singer of the very popular punk pop

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band blink 182 now he always had an interest
in ufos uaps and around about 2015 2016 in

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the run-up to the hillary clinton donald trump
election campaign he started taking a very

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prominent position in asserting that he was
in touch with people at the highest levels

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of the department of defense the national
security agency the military the intelligence

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services in the united states and he was making
a series of what sounded like wild claims

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that that he was being briefed about things
pertaining to uaps he made some absolutely

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extraordinary assertions according to him
he was being told that there had been some

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kind of presence of what these people called
the others on planet earth for thousands of

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years that it was linked back to ancient civilizations
that were the precursors even before the sumerian

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civilization that there was in fact a a group
known as the anunnaki that had basically visited

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planet earth that essentially were involved
in encouraging the creation of intelligent

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human beings and civilization that they seeded
the planet with culture with learning with

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scientific knowledge this all sounded very
very wild and a lot of people chuckled and

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dismissed tom de long so why do i think tom
de long is important in the narrative of recent

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uap history well i can tell you the reason
i think tom delong is important is because

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of a bunch of russian hackers from a military
intelligence service in moscow called the

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gru this is an incredible story and i think
it's been overlooked by a lot of people in

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ufology because the gru the russian intelligence
service were trying to help even though a

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lot of people may dispute this they were genuinely
trying to help donald trump win the election

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campaign and in the course of that battle
they hacked into the dnc the democratic national

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congress committee's uh email system and they
procured emails showing that john podesta

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who was one of the senior campaign officials
for hillary clinton a former barack obama

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and bill clinton white house senior adviser
john podesta was in touch with tom delong

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talking about ufo disclosure and i i talk
to anyone who who's prepared to listen about

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this because i think this is extraordinary
significance because in journalism what you

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look for is you look for corroboration and
here we have ironically as a result of determined

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criminal hacking by russian intelligence we
have evidence in the form of emails which

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shows that tom delonge really was speaking
to people who were at a senior level in the

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pentagon in the department of defense and
in the intelligence services one of them was

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a guy called general neil mccasland and another
one was a guy called general michael carey

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neil mccasland used to be at what is apocryphally
known as the foreign technology division in

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the wright-patterson air force base he was
one of the senior generals who handled if

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you like the back engineering of recovered
non-american technology and apocryphally mythically

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that's the place where a lot of the alleged
recovered non-human technology has been taken

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from places like roswell and other alleged
uap crashes if anyone knows where the bodies

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are buried in ufology it's general neil mccaslin
and the other person is general michael carey

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michael carey was based out of norad which
is the um cooperative body between canada

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and the united states that does early warning
of intercontinental ballistic missiles but

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also has tapped into a worldwide monitoring
system for not just icbm launches but also

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for any evidence of orbital technology that
is not part of america's technology it was

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primarily aimed of course of keeping an eye
on the the russians the chinese and the north

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koreans and perhaps also any other nation
like the the indians and the pakistanis that

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might be attempting any kind of improper use
of nuclear technology what's very very interesting

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is that we know from those leaked emails that
were provided to wikileaks that you can still

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read online and you can read about them in
my book it's just the most extraordinary series

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of evidence which shows definitively that
tom de long was in touch with senior people

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as he asserted that he was he was being briefed
by them told incredible things and i think

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this is this is the important thing for me
bryce i think in the run-up to the hillary

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clinton versus donald trump election my hypothesis
is that people in the defense department in

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the american intelligence community strongly
believed that hillary clinton was going to

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be the new president nobody thought it was
possible that donald trump was going to win

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the presidency and they were anticipating
that hillary clinton was going to become the

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president and so they were preparing for her
to be what she promised to be which was the

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disclosure president that's a a good theory
and i think it's probably true because i you

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know obviously a lot of people knew that she
was into that and and i think a lot of people

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obviously did not think that trump was going
to win but that's not the question i had the

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question i have is i love hearing you explain
all that and how these very high level people

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who would know where the bodies literally
are buried or put away and where the ships

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are and things like that who are high-level
people why would they confide in such an unreliable

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messenger as tom de long i mean you know we
talk about message discipline in uh you know

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in the business and people you know who are
you know meeting the news uh and and making

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news they and politicians everybody's got
message discipline where they they know what

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they're supposed to say what they're not supposed
to say tom delong doesn't seem to have any

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message discipline he just is out there he
says what he's going to say why pick him

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okay i have a theory about this and this is
only speculative but in the emails it's quite

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clear that on occasion and tom's actually
admitted this in some of his many interviews

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on the subject he was prepared to allow what
he said publicly to be vetted and approved

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he was offering himself essentially as a communications
mouthpiece for the defence and intelligence

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services in your country and a journalist
a mainstream journalist like myself or yourself

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we would never we could never agree to such
terms you don't compromise your ability to

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freely report on something by allowing your
message to be tempered by the people who are

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telling it to you because i do believe i really
do i i do believe that crimes have been committed

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that and i'm not suggesting it was general
neil mccaslin or general michael carey but

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somebody inside the defense or intelligence
hierarchy and probably also in private aerospace

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in the united states has been lying actively
misleading government and those are crimes

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it's a contempt of the congress to mislead
a congressional oversight committee totally

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i believe has happened here and and i i i
think i agree with you on that but i still

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at the end of the day frankly i like tom delonge
i i i don't really know his music very well

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but i've enjoyed hearing him talk on the air
and and all of that but if the point was he

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was willing to stick to the message that was
cleared by his his handlers then i just flashed

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back to so many different interviews he did
but no most notably he did one with joe rogan

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on joe rogan's show very early on in his launch
and and he was talking about things that i

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can't even imagine and the air force or the
navy or anyone that the department of defense

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thought he should be talking about unless
they were there was another agenda that they

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wanted him to stray so far from the reservation
that it accomplished something else but that's

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just my question in theory but i do have another
question about him he started uh the to the

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stars academy which uh i think most people
will admit was very effective in the day and

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at the beginning it managed to cooperate with
those videos and it brought in a lot of people

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elizondo and melon and and justice and all
these names of people who were deeply inside

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the government and new things after such an
auspicious stop start those people are gone

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now what happened to de long and his ttsa
and why is he now in uh the witness protection

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program of ufology okay i think and we better
wrap this up soon because i want you to talk

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about john lennon in the next segment but
i i think that it's because fundamentally

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ttsa to the stars academy was conceived in
expectation of a hillary clinton victory uh

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it's quite clear and and i i advise anybody
who's interested in the history of this to

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look at the podesta emails that are leaked
onto wikileaks and they show very very clearly

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that general neil mccaslin was actually talking
to the potential hillary clinton white house

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campaign manager policy advisor about how
the message of disclosure could be communicated

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to the american public it's quite clear to
me that hillary clinton was going to order

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the files to be opened and the doors to be
opened transparency to happen on uap shortly

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after she became president and i think it
all fell in a heap when donald trump became

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president it's it's clearly one of the great
what-ifs yeah it's i mean absolutely where

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would we be now and and what happened instead
when it was trump did anyone even talk to

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him about it what what happened oh i think
trump was briefed i think trump was told something

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because as you recall his uh son donald trump
jr did an interview with him shortly before

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the election where he asked his dad about
roswell you know dad what's all this stuff

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about ufos and his father intimated that he
knew something about roswell and he went that's

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very interesting but i can't well if anyone
has ever demonstrated a lack of message discipline

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uh that could rival uh tom delong it might
be donald trump so i and and they're both

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in they're both in interesting positions i
don't know there's more to know about this

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i look forward to us in the future revisiting
who knew what when and what the plan was and

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how it's changed now look we've saved the
biggest rock star for last in our next segment

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bryce is going to tell us what he's learned
from his nearly year-long investigation into

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the john lennon ufo sighting it's an amazing
story and i had no idea bryce about the details

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that you've turned up i've also just learned
that you've written a book bryce about the

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beatles so john lennon seeing a ufo lets you
talk about two of your favorite things at

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the same time stick around coming up next
on need to know [Music] [Applause]

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[Music] misery

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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over here up there i saw a ufo and it went
down the river turn right at the united nations

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turn left and then down the river it wasn't
a helicopter it wasn't a balloon and it was

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so near and it looked wet sort of round white
just licensed and silent silent and it looked

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dark like black or gray in the middle and
had white lights just look like light bulbs

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you know just going off on off on off on blink
blink blink blink around the bottom and on

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top was a red light

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[Music]

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well everybody's smoking getting high everybody's
fine never touch the sky there's ufo's over

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new york and 
i ain't too surprised

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[Music] you know i still think a lot about
john lennon what if linden hadn't been murdered

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42 years ago this coming december if he'd
kept his health he'd be 82 years old this

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october 9. now if that octagonary and john
lennon were still with us today i think he'd

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be talking about today's news he'd probably
have a twitter account the real john lennon

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and he'd be writing some of the wittiest tweets
that are out there probably like an angry

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steve martin and he'd be commenting on our
broken politics and probably talking about

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the pandemic we're living through race issues
climate change nuclear threats ukraine and

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frankly how our inhumanity to humanity was
going to kill us all but but he would also

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be talking about uap and he would be keenly
aware of this moment we're living in he'd

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know about the gillibrand amendment last year's
uap report the nimitz and he'd probably have

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lou elizondo on his apple phone for speed
dial all that and i bet he would still be

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talking about the ufo that he saw on august
23 1974. he would have told this story so

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00:39:00,650 --> 00:39:06,420
many times that he'd have lost count it was
a huge event in his life he told his friends

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he had the sighting and he called in to the
new york daily news and the nypd he released

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a sketch that he'd made immediately after
the event he granted interviews to reporters

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he put his claim in the liner notes of his
upcoming walls and bridges album he wasn't

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00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:28,660
shy and shortly before his death in 1980 he
recorded a song with a lyric that said there

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were ufos over new york and it wasn't even
the first ufo song that he had recorded he

383
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:39,780
had done one earlier years earlier so that's
what i want to do today i want to talk about

384
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:44,319
the sighting with you folks because sadly
john lennon is not here to tell the story

385
00:39:44,319 --> 00:39:50,000
himself the truth is that people tend to dismiss
his sighting because there are so many other

386
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,790
great cases and the obvious problem hey it's
a john lennon ufo story right i'm here to

387
00:39:55,790 --> 00:40:02,260
tell you that such an easy and casual dismissal
aimed at getting a laugh is a mistake particularly

388
00:40:02,260 --> 00:40:08,329
in this day and age when the u.s government
actually admits to the reality of unidentified

389
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:14,900
aerial phenomena that puts a lot of things
back on the table including the lennon sighting

390
00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:21,790
okay then let's wind the clock back to august
of 1974. it's august 23rd the sighting took

391
00:40:21,790 --> 00:40:27,359
place that night and that was exactly two
weeks to the day since richard nixon had resigned

392
00:40:27,359 --> 00:40:32,910
his presidency in disgrace back then newly
sworn in president gerald ford was still learning

393
00:40:32,910 --> 00:40:37,930
how to make toast in the family quarters of
the white house and that was big news so in

394
00:40:37,930 --> 00:40:43,880
this brief window of time there was hope in
america again the stranglehold that richard

395
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,820
nixon had on our national psyche had been
broken the system actually did look like it

396
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:53,930
had worked and let us throw the bomb out and
even vietnam was winding down but all was

397
00:40:53,930 --> 00:40:58,500
not well in lenin's world when this happened
the u.s government was trying to throw him

398
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:03,290
out of the country and his immigration case
consumed much of his time and he'd been broken

399
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:08,660
up for over a year at this point with yoko
ono he'd moved to los angeles with their assistant

400
00:41:08,660 --> 00:41:14,700
a young woman named named mae pang she was
just 22. and it was his so-called lost weekend

401
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:19,579
fueled by drugs and alcohol and he ended up
in the news looking like a celebrity who had

402
00:41:19,579 --> 00:41:26,380
lost control and mae pang became an eyewitness
to a series of embarrassing and spirit crushing

403
00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:31,720
public run-ins about town that was why he
was back in new york city in those last days

404
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:37,980
of august in the summer of 1974 john lennon
and maypang were only in their second month

405
00:41:37,980 --> 00:41:44,150
of living at their penthouse apartment and
the address was 434 east 52nd street in new

406
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:49,900
york it was a great apartment had a view of
brooklyn's navy shipyard docks lennon told

407
00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:54,450
friends that whenever he looked out it reminded
him of working class liverpool where he grew

408
00:41:54,450 --> 00:41:59,010
up with the other beatles i mean it was a
very cool place i think it sold recently for

409
00:41:59,010 --> 00:42:04,960
over five million dollars it had a wraparound
outside patio with a view of the east river

410
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:10,270
and as it turned out something else that wasn't
supposed to be there at all so that's the

411
00:42:10,270 --> 00:42:15,520
setup to this let me tell you what happened
it's around nine o'clock at night john lennon

412
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:21,349
is sitting in his bedroom he's on the bed
and he is looking over the walls and bridges

413
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:28,280
album artwork to see you know whether he approved
of it or not he is naked okay that's part

414
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:33,970
of the story you can't get away from maypang
has called in pizza she's in the house she's

415
00:42:33,970 --> 00:42:39,690
naked all right lennon while he's working
on this thing looks outside the window and

416
00:42:39,690 --> 00:42:45,770
sees something that he can't explain so he
runs out onto the patio and he sees something

417
00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:51,819
that he describes later as about the size
of a learjet and it's so close that in various

418
00:42:51,819 --> 00:42:57,660
tellings he said you could throw a brick at
it and hit it so he starts screaming may you

419
00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:02,270
gotta come out here you gotta come out here
and she's not coming and he starts screaming

420
00:43:02,270 --> 00:43:09,130
you gotta come out here now so she comes out
and now you've got two people two naked people

421
00:43:09,130 --> 00:43:13,800
in new york city standing on their penthouse
and they're looking at something in the sky

422
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:20,630
that is hovering and it's completely silent
and this is what it looks like it looks like

423
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:27,349
a cone and it's got a red bright light on
the top and on the bottom it has a series

424
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:31,800
of what lenin would describe as light bulbs
that were alternating around the bottom of

425
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:39,359
it blink on blink off blank on blink off and
they take a good hard look at this thing and

426
00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:45,140
according to both of them it was there at
least 10 minutes and in the middle of it it

427
00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:50,760
does something that very few people were making
up at that time very few people had reported

428
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:56,569
this kind of behavior at the time it goes
sideways which blue may pang away she was

429
00:43:56,569 --> 00:44:01,650
like what is it doing it went like this and
then suddenly it was sideways and it begins

430
00:44:01,650 --> 00:44:07,819
to move slowly down the east river as lennon
and maypang watch this thing and it goes down

431
00:44:07,819 --> 00:44:13,970
the river it's it's going slowly it's silent
a lot of the windows in the area are closed

432
00:44:13,970 --> 00:44:18,200
because people are gone for the summer it
was very uh that's the kind of neighborhood

433
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:24,500
it was and it goes down past the united nations
building and as they're watching it it then

434
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:29,410
goes up in the sky and it's gone but it's
an extended sighting and the idea that it

435
00:44:29,410 --> 00:44:33,750
had these lights and there were twinkling
and there were different colors is not something

436
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:39,150
that would even be in close encounters until
1977 when spielberg made it so what does he

437
00:44:39,150 --> 00:44:48,260
do he immediately goes to work uh trying to
make his recollection clear he makes a a he

438
00:44:48,260 --> 00:44:54,089
was famous for sketches and he makes several
sketches of this ufo and he also calls his

439
00:44:54,089 --> 00:44:58,490
friend bob gruen who was the photographer
who would end up taking that famous photo

440
00:44:58,490 --> 00:45:02,650
of john lennon with the ripped t-shirt that
says new york city and he tells him to come

441
00:45:02,650 --> 00:45:08,000
over because may has taken photos

442
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:15,480
bob takes the camera back he takes the film
out he develops the photos and the photos

443
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,230
don't show anything they're they're blank
they look like it's been through raid the

444
00:45:19,230 --> 00:45:24,540
uh through the detector at the airport little
sprocket holes and that's about it uh blasted

445
00:45:24,540 --> 00:45:30,740
out they called the police lenin doesn't call
the police because he's afraid if he says

446
00:45:30,740 --> 00:45:36,000
that i'm john lennon and i saw ufo nobody's
going to really care so as gruen called the

447
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:41,890
police bruin calls the police the nypd blue
people they say they've got several reports

448
00:45:41,890 --> 00:45:46,720
of it that night he also calls the new york
daily news they say they've seen about five

449
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:51,970
other reports on that may peng would later
say in an interview that there were 400 other

450
00:45:51,970 --> 00:45:56,559
people who saw it now i don't know about all
that i don't know because i haven't been able

451
00:45:56,559 --> 00:46:02,870
to find any more of these witnesses i do know
that in 1983 when i was working in los angeles

452
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:09,170
for kabc i met mae pang she told me this story
herself she wrote about it in her book loving

453
00:46:09,170 --> 00:46:18,270
john and it's always stayed with me as a a
phenomenal story for a couple of reasons first

454
00:46:18,270 --> 00:46:23,140
this is the man that wrote the famous song
give me some truth he was a man that told

455
00:46:23,140 --> 00:46:28,580
things the way he saw him i don't think anybody
can doubt that so here's a guy that wants

456
00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:35,400
the truth and he immediately tells this crazy
story about seeing a ufo and he tells it at

457
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,910
a time when it would have be a problem for
him i mean he's got this immigration case

458
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:44,970
going on the last thing he needs is for people
to think that he's busy seeing ufos while

459
00:46:44,970 --> 00:46:50,050
he's naked that's not a good look for him
but he tells the story anyway and he sticks

460
00:46:50,050 --> 00:46:56,140
with it all his life it's corroborated by
maypeng who seems like a very credible witness

461
00:46:56,140 --> 00:47:05,520
if you hear her talk about it and and not
only that four months before he passed away

462
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:11,510
because he was murdered in new york city in
december on december 8th of 1980 he records

463
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:18,480
a song called um nobody told me and that song
includes the phrase there's ufos over new

464
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:24,470
york and i ain't too surprised and he includes
it on that famous album artwork he puts it

465
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:31,140
out there he sticks with the story and he
never changes it so that's my john lennon

466
00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:38,380
story can i say bryce that's a fascinating
story i mean okay let me be flippant for a

467
00:47:38,380 --> 00:47:42,970
moment is it possible that john lennon was
just doing drugs with me that night and then

468
00:47:42,970 --> 00:47:46,880
they were having hallucinations that's what
you know the easy way to dismiss it is to

469
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:53,590
say that both pang pang did not do drugs she
had a coca-cola habit that wouldn't quit but

470
00:47:53,590 --> 00:48:01,290
she didn't do drugs john lennon had been on
his last weekend in los angeles where admittedly

471
00:48:01,290 --> 00:48:06,530
he did drugs and he did he drank too much
and he made a fool of himself in a few public

472
00:48:06,530 --> 00:48:12,890
uh situations but at the time he was not on
drugs he states he wasn't on drugs he hadn't

473
00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:17,099
been on drugs according to his friends and
even if you're on drugs i don't know that

474
00:48:17,099 --> 00:48:21,180
you would ordinarily just see flashing ufos
and the final thing i would say about that

475
00:48:21,180 --> 00:48:27,040
is you would have to dismiss it as performance
art like yo john inyoko of course did the

476
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:32,290
famous bed in in toronto for peace you'd have
to say well maybe he thinks it's all a big

477
00:48:32,290 --> 00:48:36,010
piece of performance art but i don't think
so i don't think you stick with that all your

478
00:48:36,010 --> 00:48:42,130
life okay let's be open-minded about this
for a moment let's assume that there is some

479
00:48:42,130 --> 00:48:47,500
non-human intelligence trying to engage with
humanity trying to slowly encourage people

480
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:52,950
to become aware of the fact that it's real
wouldn't it be the best way to try and communicate

481
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:58,400
with one of the most iconic cultural figures
of our time to plant the seed in his brain

482
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:03,160
that there is a reality that people haven't
yet acknowledged well i mean people have made

483
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,180
that argument and i can't say that i find
fault with the argument i don't i haven't

484
00:49:07,180 --> 00:49:13,020
found any personal evidence that would include
him even believing that he was the chosen

485
00:49:13,020 --> 00:49:18,770
one to receive this kind of you know special
knowledge but i would think i've had to think

486
00:49:18,770 --> 00:49:24,940
about the nature of of reality in studying
this thing because i wanted to see those 400

487
00:49:24,940 --> 00:49:29,640
witnesses or i'd at least like to see that
the newspaper wrote about it but unfortunately

488
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:35,569
we as we've talked about on many shows the
news media has is still slow to recognize

489
00:49:35,569 --> 00:49:40,630
this phenomenon and they certainly were very
slow back then so even though they had john

490
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:46,960
lennon and other people calling the daily
news there is not a whiff of this story in

491
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:53,280
the daily news from that time period right
and you just have to say memory bryce yeah

492
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:59,190
i've got a vape memory bryce that john lennon
did say publicly that he was abducted by aliens

493
00:49:59,190 --> 00:50:06,160
once is that right not so much publicly as
he did he did say that he thought he might

494
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:13,270
have been okay and here's the thing that i
have to always had to struggle with i don't

495
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:18,430
know what the evidence is for that story because
it's just something that he reported and there

496
00:50:18,430 --> 00:50:26,100
aren't other witnesses and uh it's it's it's
further out a field he also apparently said

497
00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:32,950
he was given what looked like a golden egg
a metallic egg sized thing that by aliens

498
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:39,530
and that he gave it to yuri geller and that
yuri still has it so wow i would say to yuri

499
00:50:39,530 --> 00:50:45,270
geller you should turn it over for observation
and analysis if that was the case i've had

500
00:50:45,270 --> 00:50:50,099
to separate those two issues because the mere
fact that someone says something that i don't

501
00:50:50,099 --> 00:50:54,280
know whether i can believe it or not has got
to be separate from another thing that was

502
00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:00,740
perceived by other people but i do think it
raises questions there appeared to be a physical

503
00:51:00,740 --> 00:51:06,089
reality to at least john lennon and maypang
and to a few other people does that mean it

504
00:51:06,089 --> 00:51:12,200
was physically real the entire time or does
that mean that john lennon saw it as physically

505
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,260
real and that would make it that wouldn't
necessarily discredit it as an observation

506
00:51:17,260 --> 00:51:23,450
would it because many people see these things
in our skies and we are yet to say all of

507
00:51:23,450 --> 00:51:28,910
them are physically real we believe there's
another aspect to this

508
00:51:28,910 --> 00:51:35,290
now i find that whole story fascinating not
least because yet again it's it's actually

509
00:51:35,290 --> 00:51:39,680
quite a credible sighting it's corroborated
yes uh you know he's got his girlfriend with

510
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:44,950
him and she's saying she saw it as well and
as you say there was nothing to gain from

511
00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:50,230
him to talk about that but just before we
go today i actually think it's worth recording

512
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:55,619
that there are numerous other rock stars who've
said similar things about encounters with

513
00:51:55,619 --> 00:52:04,910
uaps just to name a few cat stevens jimi hendrix
david bowie olivia newton-john sammy hagar

514
00:52:04,910 --> 00:52:11,390
from van halen dave groll from the foo fighters
sting they've all got their own stories about

515
00:52:11,390 --> 00:52:19,540
uaps or encounters with uaps sightings or
even more intense personal experiences i guess

516
00:52:19,540 --> 00:52:26,170
what it does show is that there's a wide range
of experience there of famous people who claim

517
00:52:26,170 --> 00:52:32,859
they've had an interaction with the phenomenon
it can't all be a coincidence can it brunch

518
00:52:32,859 --> 00:52:39,270
well i mean let's face it uh the easy dismissal
is to say well rock stars are off their rockers

519
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:45,940
a little bit and and you know you can you
can sort of cast aspersions um and i i i think

520
00:52:45,940 --> 00:52:50,220
we could do a show sometime talking about
what these other people saw but what the other

521
00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:58,400
people saw have has fewer credible sustaining
thoughts to it than the lenin story i mean

522
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:04,240
this is a man who didn't benefit by telling
the story but was passionate about it according

523
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:09,089
to may pang you know after this was over he
you know after he'd seen it he wanted to talk

524
00:53:09,089 --> 00:53:15,190
about it all the time and in fact there's
a recording that maypang uh made shortly after

525
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:21,160
this thing where john lennon waxes philosophical
on the topic of ufos and he ends up talking

526
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,830
about something that when i wrote the book
80 after disclosure with richard dolan i fell

527
00:53:25,830 --> 00:53:29,910
in love with this quote because i thought
you know he's actually thinking about the

528
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:35,740
big picture and he's moved on from just thinking
about what he saw and trying to figure out

529
00:53:35,740 --> 00:53:40,309
what does it mean in the grand scheme of things
this is the quote from john lennon and by

530
00:53:40,309 --> 00:53:45,660
the way may pang i believe still has that
recording and if may is listening may i urge

531
00:53:45,660 --> 00:53:51,520
you to let people hear john lennon say what
i'm about to say in his own words but here

532
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:59,920
we go in his own voice he said quote if the
masses started to accept ufos it would profoundly

533
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:07,849
affect their attitudes toward life politics
everything it would threaten the status quo

534
00:54:07,849 --> 00:54:12,640
whenever people come to realize that there
are larger considerations than their own petty

535
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:18,900
lives they are ripe to make radical changes
on a personal level which would eventually

536
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:26,710
lead to a political revolution in society
as a whole now i just find that to be advanced

537
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:31,950
level thinking and i don't think that's from
somebody who's just making it all up

538
00:54:31,950 --> 00:54:41,200
and on that note folks i think it's time to
bring an end to this week's need to know conversation

539
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,559
we know you're busy and we deeply appreciate
the time and the attention that you give us

540
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:52,440
until next time bryce well remember we can
handle the truth folks and people get ready

541
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:53,730
[Music] [Applause]

542
00:54:53,730 --> 00:54:54,730
[Music]

543
00:54:54,730 --> 00:54:58,900
[Applause] out the blue you came to

544
00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:25,720
if you see a little note on walls and bridges
it says i saw a ufo and i was just finished

545
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:26,720
doing all the bridges i've mastered it or
done the last tape of it and i was really

546
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:30,670
just relaxed and feeling good and it was summer
in new york and i had the window open and

547
00:55:30,670 --> 00:55:43,050
lo and behold there was this thing just hovering
sort of a hundred yards away but i saw it

548
00:55:43,050 --> 00:55:58,140
so close it wasn't in the sky or nothing you
know and it was like i could have hit it with

549
00:55:58,140 --> 00:56:19,709
a brick if i thrown a stone at it i couldn't
see the colors because it was just it was

550
00:56:19,709 --> 00:56:21,740
a good clear summer night you know the sky
was very clear and round the bottom of it

551
00:56:21,740 --> 00:56:22,740
were just ordinary looking electric light
bulbs blinking off and on alternatively

552
00:56:22,740 --> 00:56:23,740
and on the top of it was a red light and the
thing i noticed was that there was no noise

553
00:56:23,740 --> 00:56:34,111
and i could hear that freeway down below all
the cars going so i realized oh it's not a

554
00:56:34,111 --> 00:56:35,111
helicopter then it must be a balloon it was
so close to the rooftop that it couldn't be

555
00:56:35,111 --> 00:56:49,230
a balloon so all the rational things i went
to not a helicopter balloon not a balloon

556
00:56:49,230 --> 00:57:05,869
it's too close to the roof and it's maneuvered
too well to be a balloon so i just watched

557
00:57:05,869 --> 00:57:08,349
it and it it was there for about five or ten
minutes down the east river and there it was

558
00:57:08,349 --> 00:57:17,339
and that's all i gotta say about it

559
00:57:17,339 --> 00:57:18,339
[Music]

560
00:57:18,339 --> 00:57:22,050
well everybody's smoking getting high

561
00:57:22,050 --> 00:57:24,600
and i ain't too surprised

562
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:32,250
[Music] nobody told me that these days like
this no one told me

563
00:57:32,250 --> 00:57:34,010
nobody told me